Live poker flush play

General strategy discussion.

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Ouseetteled
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flush draws

Postby Ouseetteled » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:49 pm

I have found myself chasing alot lately.  This is probably because  I have found that recently when I give  up on  a draw hand it ends up hitting.  
But when I do chase it doesn't hit.  This is so frustrating.  I hear different theories as to how to approach this.  Can I hear yours?
Niiis1992
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Postby Niiis1992 » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:04 am

If you really want to get technical about it then it has a lot to with with "implied odds." Read Theory of Poker by David Sklansky. I personally like flush draws. But I don't go crazy with them. I like to be holding the "nut" flush draw also. Sometimes 2 or more players are chasing the same flush, then you really feel like a donk when his cards are larger. Just make sure you have the correct pot odds, you opponent isn't super strong, and your not putting your tournament, or cash in jeopardy over and over again with flush draws.
Thernand
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Well put

Postby Thernand » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:38 am

I agree with your theory.. In fact I just witnessed that very case in a tourny I was playing.. They guy had two low hearts, So when the flush did come he found himself losing to a larger flush thinking his hand was best. If that player is angry, well perhaps he shouldnt have even played a weak hand like 2-5 of hearts in the first place.
Satere1966
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Postby Satere1966 » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:00 pm

I personally think that on a draw you should raise the inital bet instead of chasing. This all depends on how strong your draw is and how big your stack is.
Pruchalk
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Postby Pruchalk » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:41 pm

One other factor comes up if your flush draw hits without it being the nut flush...that's if you get your flush on the turn. Chances are your flush is good...but how many times then do you hit another card of suit on the river and get clobbered by the A? Too often to be enjoyable for me!
Hationizing
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Postby Hationizing » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:48 am

If you are going to chase the flush then you have to make sure you can do it as cheaplyas possible.  If you are against a solid aggressive player then you want to raise his initial bet.  This might not make much sense at first but if used properly the intitial bettor usually just checks the turn waiting to see what you will do.  This gives you the opportunity tochase your flush cheaper then if you just called showing your opponent weakness in which case he is usually going to try to bet you off the hand thus making it more expensive in the long run to chase your flush.  You will actualy be surprised how many times players will fold to you if you miss and you take the lead in the hand on the turn anyway.  To do this I would suggest only doing it with people that actually realize that one pair is the single most losing hand.  

Another thing with chasing flush draws and how expensive it is going to be to chase them is the texture of the board.  For example if you have a board of say 5h,7h, and 2s then it is much more likely that you will win the hand right then and there if you reraise or at least get to  check it down to the river if needed.  I in all actuality have put people all in in spots like this for the simple fact that if they are the original bettor out on the flop then they usually don't have a very strong hand.  This theory does not always hold true for everone but for most it does for the simple fact thatmost peoplethat flop sets on a horrible board like this are trying to make money with their premium hand, thus they usually just check it giving you the free card you wanted anyway.  Aside from a set you usually don't  have many worries with a board like this, and you will more often than not pick up the pot with the reraise.  Lets assume you do go all in with a board like this and your opponent makes a crazy call with someting like a pair of sevens.  Well congratuilations thats what you wanted because you are a statistical favorite in this hand anyway. Lets say you have the ah,10h well you have a 54.1% chance of winning the hand.  This might not seem like a huge advantage but remeber casinos offering blackjack are only favored 1% over the bettor and they are making 100's of millions with this advantage.

With boards of a higher texture chasing your flush might not even be worth it.  If a board comes up as,qh,kh then you might be up against a made sraight, a double pairing of the a,k or k,q.   In either of the aforementioned cases the man is not going to let you chase your flush cheaply.  You could try the reraise move here but if you got any kind of retallitory raising back then I say you are better off just letting your monster draw go and living to fight another day.

Everything I have just said is of course situational and depends on how well you know your opponents betting patterns and what not.  Aside from my little disclaimer their I hope this has helped a little bit.
Comee1985
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Postby Comee1985 » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:07 pm

Biggest pots I have ever won, I won cause I was chasin flush!
Flushes and str8s always won big pots!
Thernand
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if..

Postby Thernand » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:32 am

If your going to wait until the river to hit your flush.. be prepared to lose some chips... Unless like mentioned your the one betting.

I think it depends what type of event your playing too.. If its a serious buy-in and you have one caller.. Dont be too timid when you have the flush draw... if the re-raise is too big, you may want to hold off until you have the chips to gamble.

If its a low pay-out freeroll what I do sometimes on a draw and getting raised with 1 caller is I push.. If you dont hit.. Its no big loss as there isnt much money to be made anyways. Odds are though unless he has a set or strong pair/kicker the opponent wont call anyways.
Eappy1967
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Postby Eappy1967 » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:39 am

lately ive been flopping straights ,, then losing to flushes,
Ouls1982
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Flush draws

Postby Ouls1982 » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:43 am

In order to know when to play a flush draw you must understand implied odds and estimated value.  If someone bets the size of the pot and its on you you wouldnt cal this because your estimated value would be about zero.  The odds of a flush draw off the flop is about 35%.  So in order to have a positive estimated value the largest bet you should call is a third of the pot.
Thernand
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Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:11 am

flush

Postby Thernand » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:57 am

All this talk of flush draws... Cost me cash today, finished on the bubble.. Was sent all in... 1 spot to cash.. Had the draw and a straight draw, I figured I had the outs. Lost to a pair. Oh the pain...
Restong
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Postby Restong » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:04 am

imo chasing causes disasters and i would avoid them at all costs
Cralmonce
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Postby Cralmonce » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:29 pm

chasing without the ace is scarey, scarey to chase anyway, lol
Sphrand
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chasing

Postby Sphrand » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:01 pm

when i flop a flush draw and its a good 1 like ace or king high i will maybe bet a lil to scare out the rags in the hand but normally u get 1  or 2 guys calling and when they call if the turn isnt youre card that u  need i check then i see that the other people do.....the main idea is not to go crazy and just lose all youre chips if soem1 bets big just fold its not worht it
Thernand
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Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:11 am

Live poker flush play

Postby Thernand » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:27 pm

Play with some buds last night, thank god I wasnt in this hand..

The flop 2-3-4 of spades

One of my buds had two spades (Q-8) and with 2 others in the hand.. thought he would slow play. Big mistake

Turn was 5 of spades..

Now after being pot committed he called the all-in of the guy in first position... one guy folded.. His flopped flush was crushed.. Not not by the ace.. The guy had pocket sixes... He hit the friggin straight flush.

It was a bad call... But wow what a hand...

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