Omaha Hi/Lo NL

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Turzartur
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Omaha Hi/Lo NL

Postby Turzartur » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:25 pm

I have A-4-K-K the flop comes up 2-3-6.  A guy bet $25 which was enough to put me all in so i called.  The turn was an A and he had a 4-5 so he ended up winning the high and the low.  Did I really even have an option to fold my hand in that situation?
Dientiong
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Postby Dientiong » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:55 am

Its actually a really good question.  When playing O8, remember that you are playing to scoop the whole pot.  If you were raised in this situation and had to call off your remaining $25 in chips, you have to think this through:

1)  What am I paying $25 for?  In this case you'd be paying for half the pot with a low chance of scooping (winning the whole pot).  If the pot was $5, you'd be paying $25 to win $27.50 (minus the rake).  While you are sitting on the nut low, you really have to know what your playing or (moneywise).  Someone easily could have raised with A4 as well, and then your in a rce to see whose got the better off cards....which probably is you, but you never know.

2) What kind of hand would make this play?  As I mentioned, A4 would be very possible here and you'd be racing off for the high.  If he has A4, he are splitting the low and will have to depend on your KK to take the other half.

In other words, yes, you could have folded. There would have had to have been a lot of money in the pot for me to call off my last $25.  The pot would have to contain $50 already for me to think of calling here.  I'd be too worried about getting quartered and possibly countereited (as happened).

As you'll read in a lot of books on split pot poker, you want to put yourself in a position to scoop, not take half the pot.  You don't want to take big risks when you really are only playing for half because that is -EV (negative expected value).

One more note:  O8 is one of my specialties and I am a FIRM believer that the game is meant to be played LIMIT, not NO LIMIT or even POT LIMIT.  As you get to understand this game better, this will make sense.  Its a game of draws and you want to put yourself in a position to make more correct decisions than your opponent....by playing NL (and to a lessor extent PL) you are allowing bad players to make up ground on you in short spurts.

I hope this makes sense.
Theirthe
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Postby Theirthe » Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:44 pm

you could have made the fold there because you didnt have your hand made yet but you made the decision you thought which you should do.
Gagoem
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Postby Gagoem » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:05 am

Omaha Hi Lo is an extremely challenging game.  Looking at the scenario you've presented, I too would have made the call.  Unless my opponent had flopped a set (or was lucky enough to hit the straight- which he did), I would have had to feel I was in great shape to take down both the Hi and Lo.

The A on the river was unfortunate, as it cancelled out your A, and allowed him to take down both the Hi with a straight, and the low with A 2 3 4 5.  If not for that A, you'd have split, and you can never fault yourself for putting your money in with the nuts (nut low at that point).
Nothem87
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Postby Nothem87 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:22 pm

I have A-K-K-K the flop comes up 2-3-6.  A guy bet $25 which was enough to put me all in so i called.  The turn was an A and he had a 4-5 so he ended up winning the high and the low.  Did I really even have an option to fold my hand in that situation?
Frook1971
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Postby Frook1971 » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:04 pm

I'd have put him on at least the nut low or the straight with redraws. His play was to get you to fold a better low if that was all you had or to not let you draw to it. You got a bit lucky. His play and yours where fine. The only thing that would worry me is if he has the nut low and the straight. Then you might only get 1/4 of the pot.
Pred1984
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Postby Pred1984 » Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:28 pm

One factor that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is your read on the opponent.  Was he a loose player who would try to push you out with a drawing hand or a lesser made hand?  Calling is much better against that type of player than vs. a rock.
Hinthe
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Postby Hinthe » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:37 am

I was just wondering what the limits were.  If it was a 0.10-0.25 game and you only had 0.25 invested, you could maybe lay it down.  If it was a bigger game and there was more money in the pot, I don't think it is a bad call at all.  If he is a very aggresive/loose player, he could make this play with just a set (trying to move you off a weak low).  Even if you know he has the straight on the flop, you are going to take the low 85% of the time, so as long as the pot is laying you odds, I call.

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